What's in Nick's Bag? How Nick Church photographs weddings

Nick becomes Steve's interview guest in this episode of The Photography Pod, as we delve into the deep and murky depth's of Nick's camera bag.  The show features an in depth discussion on how Nick photographs weddings including his choice of cameras and lenses, his approach to the different phases of the wedding day, his post processing and the CRM he uses to book the wedding. In other news Steve has a hot experience in Birmingham and Nick gets suntan in front of a fridge. 

Nick Church and Steve Vaughan are professional wedding photographers based in the UK. They both use Sony Alpha cameras and lenses.

Video version of the Podcast including slide shows of images https://www.youtube.com/@thephotographypod

Nick's website : https://www.nickchurchphotography.co.uk/
Nick's Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/nickchurchphotography/

Nick Church Creative Academy https://www.nickchurchphotography.co.uk/news/introducing-nick-church-creative-academy

Steve's website : https://www.samandstevephotography.com/
Steve's Wedding Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/samandstevephotography/
Steve's personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stevevaughanphotography

Any technical information given by the presenters is based on their understanding and opinion at the time of recording

Transcript

Steve (00:01)
Nick, what's the hottest thing you've ever come across in your 50 odd years on this planet? Remember this is a family show by the way, so be careful.

Nick Church (00:06)
I was, ⁓ right. Okay. Hang on. Let me rethink that last bit then. Well, I went

to Iceland and we saw some lava coming out, but it was too hot to go anywhere near. It was, it was kind of cool though. Well, what about you? You're, you're alluding to something that's, it's going to be impressive.

Steve (00:16)
wow.

cool and hot. Well apart from Death Valley which is certainly hot. I'm in Birmingham right now as you can probably gather I'm not in my normal abode so I'm in a Premier Inn living the dream. I'm in a Purple Palace in the centre of Birmingham but I've just been for a quick pint of the pizza in a pub around the corner which I like very much called the Colmore and because I'm from the West Midlands and hot things are in my DNA I thought I'll go for this pizza called Hot Hot Hot.

And what I should have done is establish what they mean by hot, hot, because it's probably hotter than the center of the sun. My God, it was hot. An hour ago, I finished eating and I've only now finally got a taste back on my taste buds. My word.

Nick Church (01:03)
What it's like to the point where you couldn't taste anything else kind of Yeah.

Steve (01:06)
I couldn't finish it, which is unheard of. I've gone for

some really hot curries on my time here in the Midlands, but I just couldn't. And God knows what they put on it. Sriracha sauce, chillies.

Nick Church (01:13)
Was it that thing about

like when Lola lads go to the kebab shop and they say we want the extra hot chilies and they just basically then put an absolute ton in?

Steve (01:21)
kind of like that but probably worse yeah it was it was unbelievably

hot here so yeah so I've kind of lost a little bit of my reputation in this part of the world I must admit so because I'm meeting some friends tomorrow for a few beers a meeting with some workmates that I used to work with 20 odd years ago around with a few beers and probably end up with a curry so I might have to wimp out and I've sung a bit more palatable like an ice cream

Nick Church (01:29)
Ha

Well, you'll be you'll be

you'll be desensitized by then. You won't be able to taste anything.

Steve (01:44)
well.

Ever. I think after that.

Nick Church (01:48)
I went to, did go to,

in my previous career, I had to go to Q8 and Saudi Arabia in different, on different trips and getting off the plane. think in Q8 it was 50 degrees and that was like a, a real shock, probably sort of 20 degrees hotter than I'd ever been in before with a suit, with a suit on, man, couldn't, couldn't bear it.

Steve (02:00)
Wow.

That's insanely hot.

And of course the weather's getting hot here now in the UK. I know it's incredible for us to say so, but it's actually been a really lovely week here this week. And of course the wedding is coming up this weekend. You know what's going to happen. It's going to burst into rain, isn't it? Guaranteed.

Nick Church (02:20)
Well, hopefully not tomorrow. Cause I've got a nice wedding tomorrow. So, but it looks like it's going to be absolutely belted. So I'll be full on, sun creamed up because with my gentle fair complexion, I like, you know, I can burn in front the fridge, leave the door empty long. I'm that I'm such a wimp with sun. I always have been. It's really weird. I think the earliest was this year that before mid February, I think it was like the 10th February or something. had a quite a warm day. sat inside for an hour, sunburn. I'm absolutely useless.

Steve (02:34)
Hahaha.

Wow, wow.

We need to tough you up, man. We need to tough you up. Should we start the show? Let's cut to the intro. So hello, yeah, welcome to the Photography Pod with Steve Vaughan and my good mate here, Nick Church. And what are we gonna do today? Because we are getting deep into wedding season right now. What we thought we would do with this episode, actually our next show as well, is kind of look at what we get up to in terms of the weddings that we photograph, not together, or at least not yet.

Nick Church (02:50)
Yeah, why not? Why not?

Steve (03:12)
but particularly with regards to the kit we use, the workflow, all of the approach that we go from literally from the inquiry through to the day where we actually turn up and start photographing the wedding. And because I'm in a premiering without any kit with me whatsoever, we're going to start with you today, Nick. So I know you've got a busy year ahead of you coming up right now. So just talk us through the things that you would start. from your first, you've got the inquiry, you've got a wedding tomorrow. So.

you know, how will tomorrow kick out for you? What would be the first thing you'll do once you get up and going?

Nick Church (03:45)
Yeah. mean, I mean,

I'll get into that. mean, I think it is a really good, and this, you know, I'll give you full credit for this idea for these two pods, because I think it is a really good idea. when, whenever you look at Facebook groups, whether it's professionals, everyone's obsessed with what everyone else is using. And it is a really interesting thing. And beginners, you can remember when, before we knew what you would need for a wedding, it's like, where'd you start? You've got to buy something, but you've got no experience to draw on to know exactly what to do. So it is, you know, hopefully it'd be really useful. But the, yeah, with, um,

Steve (04:01)
Yeah.

Absolutely, yeah.

Hmm.

Nick Church (04:15)
Should we go through like workflow stuff first and then dip into the, into the kit.

Steve (04:20)
Yeah, mean, perhaps just start to literally from the the get go really in terms of what you're going to rock up at the wedding in the morning. Talk us through the day almost really.

Nick Church (04:23)
Yeah.

Well, the first,

so the first, mean, wherever I, so the first thing I do is, is in, my CRM system, which is light blue software, which I absolutely love. And, know, I don't get paid to say that, but it is a brilliant system. It runs my life. I would be absolutely dead in the water without light blue software. It's like studio, you know, it's a competitor to studio Ninja Sprout studio and all these other, these other ones. So the first thing that I do is print off the

Steve (04:34)
Hmm. Interesting.

Alright.

Nick Church (04:52)
everything is like a PDF of every bit of information I need a phone numbers, who's who, who the groomsmen are, what the group shots they want, what the timings are. And that's my sort of Bible for the rest of the day. So that goes in my pocket. ⁓

Steve (04:56)
Okay.

Do have like

a question there? Because we use like a questionnaire with a couple of we get off off Studio Ninja in that case, but with literally that kind of information, the who, what, where, when of the day really.

Nick Church (05:12)
Yeah. I mean, it's something that in my coaching sessions, I always recommend if possible doing it in person. Cause I think it's a really good opportunity to get to know somebody and they, there's a few reasons why, why I think doing person works. Certainly for me, it works better. It's good. It's a good way, you know, it's something to talk about when you're going through the day. So that's pretty useful. It, by talking through it face to face or on Zoom, doesn't matter.

Steve (05:20)
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Nick Church (05:38)
You sometimes draw out some really important details that they hadn't mentioned. you know, by the way, my mom hates my auntie and they must not be together or my stepfather, you know, my stepfather is basically my father. My dad's not coming because we've lost touch, you know, all those little details, which they may not, you wouldn't have a field for that because it would just be endless. Are quite important things that I feel to, to, you know, make sure I'm not putting my foot in it, which I have done before I started doing this.

Steve (05:48)
Yeah, tell me about it, yeah.

Hmm.

Exactly.

me

too, me too.

Nick Church (06:07)
And the other way, the other reason is for, things like upselling and things like that. If, if, if you just, you know, if, someone's asked, asked the question, I should in video, it's probably just easy to say, no, isn't it? If, if you say, lot of my clients find that, me, a video is a really lovely way to augment the photos with just something that it really captures things, you know, and like tells the story to people, music and stuff. They're a bit more engaged and sometimes you can tell and upselling albums and everything else. So that works.

pretty well for me to do it in person. you know, I have done for shorter weddings, I do do a questionnaire because every hour you spend on your on a wedding is your bottom line, isn't it? Time is money. And the more the more hours you're chucking at it, then then you already rates going down for every hour you spend. anything. So armed with my sheet of paper, which has got the Google coordinates, and so I'm off to the wedding.

Steve (06:35)
Yeah, good idea.

It is time is money. Yeah.

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

You

Nick Church (06:59)
When I come out to my kit in a minute, at the end of the, wedding, I, when I'm back in the first thing, and this is something that I know that, everyone's got a slightly different way of doing it. The first thing for me is grab a glass of wine and back up everything into my, one of my SSDs, duplicate it onto another one. I'm in my studio now, so it's not part of the house. And I leave one here and take one to the house. And I just figure if this burns down, we get robbed or whatever. I've, I've got a second copy. ⁓

Steve (07:25)
Yeah, good idea. And you do that before

you go to bed, because I can't go to sleep until I've done that.

Nick Church (07:29)
Yeah, exactly. If

I'm back really late and I've got one coming up, a wedding coming up in, in July or June, that's up where you are now actually is it's in, well, it's Wolverhampton is it the Grand Central station in Wolverhampton and that's, it's an Indian wedding. it's so it's, it's late. They've had their ceremony day before, so it will be six o'clock till midnight. And I'm shooting another wedding in Cornwall the next day. So I'm going to have, so that's.

Steve (07:41)
All right.

Wow. Wow.

Nick Church (07:56)
That's one of the

very rare cases where I sometimes just take my, but I literally take my SD cards into my bedroom, put them on the bedside table. So they're not left anywhere that, you know, if we got, if we did get burgled or whatever. Um, but they, usually it's just, it's just so much more rustful if I can get those backed up and practically you can format down the cards again and you're off out, you know, and then.

Steve (08:04)
Yeah, sensible. Yeah, sensible.

Yeah, so you're not one of these photographers

I know a lot of photographers who've got like 1000 SD cards and never format the cards until they've done the wedding. I couldn't do that Mr.

Nick Church (08:23)
Yeah, I could never, I'm pretty

sure the way that my brain works and it's similar to the question of, you know, some people recommend shooting on smaller cards because then if you happen to loot, you know, if you, if one gets damaged or whatever, you've only lost a subset. I know my character and I'm pretty sure this is the same for everyone. Actually you're more likely to lose images by swapping cards over and chuck them in your bag and lose them than you are with the SD, especially when you've got dual card slots. So, yeah, I tend to,

Steve (08:43)
Yeah, same here.

Yeah.

Nick Church (08:50)
just get, get them all, get them all backed up and, get the SD cards cleared down and format it again. I've only got one set that I've got on here. They're, I really like that actually. They're, I don't know, they're in my cameras. They're, Sabrent, I think they're called. Yeah. Sabrent or Sabrent, ⁓ two five, six gig. They're V 90, you know, the UHS two really fast, absolutely bulletproof. Love them really good, really good. So I just reuse those again and again.

Steve (09:03)
All right, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. That's interesting.

So 256. Okay. That's interesting. not used that brand. I must admit. was a role Lexar or what's the other one? main one Sandist. Sandist. Yeah. So, yeah.

Nick Church (09:24)
SanDisk. Yeah. Yeah. I've got some those as well that

I've got plenty of space because I used to use SanDisk. So I've got some 64s and 128s and they're in my bag as well. And, and do you always have, I always, always have, you can always tell in my pocket. Cause you can see me if, if I ever see a picture of myself, I've got battery sticking out my phone and, and and two cards in my pocket at all times, just in case. Cause the last thing you want to do is try and diagnose any kind of image database failure. like, get the cards out, swap them out and worry about it later.

Steve (09:30)
Hmm. Hmm.

Always a bad trick, always a bad trick. Yeah, ⁓ absolutely, you never know, you? Yeah, no,

Yeah, absolutely. That's interesting. Okay. Yeah.

Nick Church (09:54)
Um, once, once

they're backed up, then, then what, what I quite like about doing it that way is I can then just import them into Lightroom, go to bed and just let them import into Lightroom. And what I actually do is only format the cards once that process is completed. And I've done a check on all the DNGs, which is one of the reasons I converted into DNG because you can run the validate DNG's function in Lightroom to check it, to check all your raw files before, you know, before formatting.

Steve (10:15)
that's interesting. So a couple of questions

there. They say you don't use something like photomechanics to import. You go through Lightroom straight away here.

Nick Church (10:23)
Yep. Go straight into Lightroom.

I'm just one of those people that I just don't see a benefit of photo mechanic or ones like it. can see when I work with other people that are culling during the meal and they can almost kind of, you know, cull down a set straight away. Cause that's the problem with Lightroom. You have to ingest everything first and it takes ages. ⁓ but because I tend to do, I tend to do big shoots that are going to take, you know, an overnight anyway. I just let, I just let it do it once it's in there. I don't see a massive benefit. So I do just tend to.

Steve (10:36)
Yeah.

Yes, right.

And the DNGs

purely so you can check things have gone correctly.

Nick Church (10:53)
Yeah, there's a few, mean, it kind of, I don't think it makes much difference. It's the same data repackaged. The DNG is slightly smaller than a raw file in most, in most camera brand cases. They, they don't use side cars or the metadata is in the file. So a little bit less cumbersome and yeah, the disability to, um, be able to validate stuff is pretty handy. I think the, the old reason of doing it was that if Lightroom had some falling out with Nikon and they decided they're not going to read at NET files, I think that's probably unlikely to ever have ever be an issue.

Steve (11:22)
I think it's quite unlikely.

But you never know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you never know.

Nick Church (11:24)
Um, but yeah, so, but it's a habit I got into once,

once they're in, um, light room as we, we, we've talked on previous projects. I use that for probably 95 % of the edits, handful of them are more than dip into it, into the photo and back into light room. A couple I might put into Photoshop and back in, but these days probably more of auto for most of things I need. Um,

Steve (11:47)
So do you have

an import preset that you use that you've developed as your own style or your own way of photographing?

Nick Church (11:53)
Yeah, I do. when I import, I just do the, all the stuff I know I'm going to need to do on each image, is, ⁓ lens correction, apply profile, you know, just that basic, some sharpness noise reduction, not too, not too heavy. I tend not to bother doing anything else to it because I'd stuff it into, AI, after shoot for the edit.

Steve (12:00)
Hmm. Hmm. Yep.

Okay,

so that was going to the next question. Okay.

Nick Church (12:16)
So it goes, it goes into there and it, and

it does it, it does that. and I, I do really rate after shoot and I really like the platform and it does save me an awful lot of time. well, actually I should correct myself there. doesn't save me time. Cause I used to outsource. So I used to outsource to an editor and those, those images, so it saves you money, but it doesn't save me time because after shoot, does need more finessing afterwards than it did when it was a friend. Just cause it's the editor.

Steve (12:31)
Okay, okay.

Nick Church (12:42)
some things I need to tweak a little bit, each image has been looked at by a human. thought, yeah, that's pretty good. That's good to go. but I do find it takes a bit more.

Steve (12:49)
It's definitely got better aftershoots.

I'm sure we'll talk about it more when I look at mine, I'm very happy with everything that's there aftershoots, but it's definitely got better over the last six months. Even the white balance has got a lot better and just the general consistency has definitely improved in my opinion.

Nick Church (13:03)
Yeah,

I really rate it. mean, and to go through, if you're going to go through all the images anyway, I think you're right. White balance is probably the one that thing. just dip that down a bit. It doesn't do the, I know that they're adding things like masks and do things like that, but I do tend to do quite a lot of, manual local adjustments through Lightroom. So it doesn't do that, but then I'm to do that anyway. So it might, it's just basically chucking in my presets, adjusting the white balance, getting it pretty much getting exposure, right. Cropping straight and things.

Steve (13:08)
Mm.

Yeah, me too.

Nick Church (13:32)
And it just means I can, you know, there's so many images I can just go through. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. That's fine. That's exactly as I would do it, you know, and then a few, might need to tweak it more. They go, actually I would, would change the approach I would take on that image.

Steve (13:44)
So just some clear there. So it's important to Lightroom, slightly import preset, off to after shoot for your AI processing and then back into Lightroom again. Okay, that's interesting. Bit different to where I do it, yeah.

Nick Church (13:53)
Yeah. Yeah. So I think look,

looking at the after shoot, Facebook group, think I'm probably in the minority that don't use it for calling. I don't do the culling in, aftershoots. I do all of that in Lightroom and then export catalog from Lightroom of just, just the selects that I want them then import that into, after shoot, then it do its job when it's finished, just import it back into Lightroom and which is it, which is actually

Steve (14:07)
interesting.

Okay.

Right, so you have like one master

catalog. Yeah, okay.

Nick Church (14:20)
Yeah, I've got one master class logo, so just

spin off a small version of just those wedding shots and then bring them back in, which is exactly the same process I used to do with the Axle Senator.

Steve (14:26)
Hmm.

Right. Okay, of course. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Really interesting because mine's very different. I use all the same bits. It's a bit like what was the, the sketch with Walk of the Wise. I'm playing all the same notes, but not necessarily in the right order. Yeah, I'm using all the same, same bits, but a very different way of doing it. It was exactly the same software that we do. We do use fader mechanics still, but no very different way of doing it, but we'll hold that thought until, until next time. yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Nick Church (14:35)
Right.

Well, okay. That'd be interesting. So yeah, we can cover that next time. ⁓ yeah.

And then do you, then when I deliver them, do you use PixiSet? What's your delivery platform you tend to use?

Steve (15:01)
So

we used to be on aftershoots until about four years ago. And one of the best things we did was two things that we've done software wise that have revolutionized our business as was Studio Ninja. use like you Studio Ninja for us was a game changer. No, purely for the CRM side of things really, know, invoicing, handling inquiries, automated replies to inquiries, making sure we never double booked ourselves which was always one of my biggest fears. ⁓

Nick Church (15:15)
What for your galleries as well to deliver galleries to?

Yeah, yeah.

Absolutely.

Steve (15:29)
Just all of that bit of it is just fabulous for that really. But no, so about three years ago we went to PigTime and absolutely love PigTime. Absolutely love it. I love the way the photos look in it. I love the way that you can really drive sales automations as a salesperson instinctively. I love all that part of it really. I think our best year we're actually selling add-ons, albums, you know.

Nick Church (15:36)
Okay. Yeah.

Steve (15:53)
photos I think we've probably got six grand on top of that you know we think we pay four hundred quid a year for for for big time you know it's a no-brainer really so really I'd recommend it to anybody

Nick Church (15:56)
Yeah, that's healthy.

Do know the number of people

that they use, whether it's PixiSet, PicTime, that don't have an online store enabled, that you're paying for it. You might as well, you know, if you make 200 quid, you know, that's paid for the platform for the year. It's just, but yeah, it's a really good add I don't do albums, I do albums separately through a company called ZNO, that they do my albums.

Steve (16:07)
It's mind-boggling.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

okay, so who are they?

I don't know them.

Nick Church (16:23)
the based in HQ in America, suspect they outsource to China. So I'll be interested to see what happens tariffs wise with the, with that, with that one. Although, although I think they get shipped straight, straight to me here. So, ⁓ maybe, maybe we'll be avoided, but I don't do any proofs. They, they select their images through, pixie set. I don't do an album proof and then send it back because I'm worried that that would be a rabbit hole of two.

Steve (16:25)
Right.

I said we just double the price, yeah.

Alright.

Alright, okay.

Nick Church (16:50)
Excuse me. Hey, fever season. I think if I sent a proof to somebody, the temptation is that they're going to start asking for changes and things like that. And that could be an endless, an endless thing. And actually we do it all the time. if a couple, even if they've got a design experience, which plenty of my couples have, I think there's, think curating an album is quite a, quite a specific niche skill, getting images to work together, make sure black and white ones fit correctly with

Steve (16:50)
Bless you. ⁓

Yeah.

Nick Church (17:18)
colour is not an obvious thing. isn't just put them together. You you do want to, and you want to feature certain images. So I just, I don't even offer that. And I just do the album and send it out. They sometimes might want to identify five, 10 images that they kind of want to feature bigger than others, but that's not really what I would do anyway. They're normally the same, normally the same photos that I would choose.

Steve (17:27)
Interesting.

Hmm.

Interesting.

We do sell some albums through Pig Time, or we have done, should I say, but again our process is offline, we would, we do do the album design for them, but we do this in Smart Albums. Or Sam does it actually, I say we. I'm useless at this, Sam does them. She can do an album in 20 minutes in Smart Albums. And then we do go the back and forth, but again let's cover that next week. Okay, so all right, so that's all the back end stuff then. So once you've got back from the wedding day, and what's your typical turnaround time then?

Nick Church (17:48)
Okay.

great.

Sure.

I normally do a preview within a week. So I was able to do that. And that works really well actually, because I do the preview and that's, I typically pick around 50 and end up delivering about 25, 30 images. And I do a preview via Facebook, but it means that I have hand edited the best images that I've taken from that day. I, you know, so it means, it means that when you get the after shoot ones back, I feel like, I feel like those headline images are real kind of, you know, money shots I've actually done by hand. I, and I think that.

Steve (18:10)
Okay.

same here.

Nick Church (18:35)
That feels right for me to be able to do that. and plus it means that, that that's images I can use to help train, after shoot. So when I started, I just select the price I use in Lightroom is I'd mark all of those red ones that I select via the color yellow. So I can just go through the last two years of image of all the red images. And that's all the ones I've hand edited. And I just keep updating off shoot every now and again with those images because they're the ones that I've Yeah.

Steve (18:35)
good idea.

Wow, we want one big catalog. That's really interesting. Yeah.

think previews are so important. And I know some photographers that don't do, but I think once everything, well, while everything is still exciting, it's still got the freshness of the day. And all of their suppliers are all putting their phone pictures up. know, it's a great chance to get some, we did a wedding at the weekend. It was a two groom wedding and, you know, the guy with the camper van, the florist, the suit, make all those kind of guys. We're starting to put, you know, pictures up.

Nick Church (19:08)
Absolutely.

Yeah.

Steve (19:24)
So we've

got some previews to them within a couple of days and they've all gone around Instagram and Facebook and it's just, it's free advertising. Yeah. It's free advertising.

Nick Church (19:30)
Absolutely. mean, you can be, if

you can be bothered, know, my mind and friend of the show Geraint does, you know, or certainly has done previews during the wedding meal so that you can put up a slide projector and knock out under images and they don't need to be really handcrafted, you know, back banging a preset. And it's just a, the number of bookings he's got from people coming up to asking for his details after seeing that the earlier you can do it, better. Cause what happens is their excitement of the day is absolutely peak at that point. And you know, so what

Steve (19:40)
wow.

Hmm.

That's fascinating.

of this.

Nick Church (19:58)
If you don't do previews, what happens is my turnaround, the way, to answer your question is for the full set is around seven weeks. I will say eight weeks, but I'd like to, you know, you're under commit over deliver. And so I come in, you know, within sort of seven weeks, but what happens in that seven weeks is their excitement has started high and drops down and drops down to the point that when you kind of give your images, there's a slight peak of excitement, but it's never up there where they, where they were to start with. If you can capitalize on that with previews, they're sharing it. They're collecting, you you can collaborate with suppliers on it.

Steve (20:09)
Absolutely.

you

No, of course not.

Nick Church (20:27)
I've got bookings from referrals at that point as well, even before they've seen their full set, based on the previews and things like that. So it's definitely worth doing if you can, even if it means pushing your delivery date back a week. So nothing actually changes, just do a handful first and then do everything else a bit later.

Steve (20:34)
Well, yeah, fascinating.

Hmm

no brainer. Yeah, fascinating. Yeah. Good. All right, so let's go back to the wedding day then so you've turned up with your bit of paper in your hand Sounds like Neville Chamberlain, you know what I mean? And see you're at the Yeah, first young guys, yeah, okay for his old people you know what that means And you you're at the wedding day So what are you turning up with in terms of the gear the equipment the bag all that kind of stuff? Let's take

Nick Church (20:54)
Another reference of the kids there.

You

Steve (21:09)
typical wedding, what kind of things are you rocking up with?

Nick Church (21:11)
Well,

my bag is a, you can't see it's down here actually, but a massive case. So it's a big sort of, what they call it, like Peli case, that type of case. So it's by a company called Tri-Fiber who, I will admit did give me that case. cause I did some photos for them. is absolutely bloody brilliant. It's the most rock solid thing. It's on rollers and it's heavy, but the case empty is pretty heavy, but it's on rollers with an extended thing.

Steve (21:17)
wow.

Never heard of them.

Nick Church (21:36)
And it just feels like it could drop out the back of the car and you would have no damage at all. which I sound like I'm really clumsy. We'll come on. We'll come on to Yeah, be fine. It's a tri-fiber case. but what I like about it is that it has, configure, you know, you know, those sorts of cases that have configurable Velcro kind of, you basically configure it as you want with compartments. So there's a space for every bit of kit, pretty much that I own.

Steve (21:42)
What's that? Oh, it's Nick's bag. Bye! Just going down the M5 by itself, yeah.

Yeah.

Nick Church (22:02)
Um, with the exclusion of things like my XT five and things like that. So everything I use for a job for a wedding, there's a space for it. It means that when, if, if, when I pack up at end of the day, when you're absolutely knackered, if there's a gap, I know I've left something. So it's really useful for that because I have, it wouldn't be the first time I've left. Um, when I used to just carry in a big building and bag, um, I did used to leave things behind. Um, I use that putting in bag actually. So that, but if you, the bidding and bags, I got that was the first camera bag I got when I first started photography and it's still.

Steve (22:05)
Hmm.

Yeah, good idea.

I'm always leaving stuff.

Nick Church (22:30)
I reckon as good now it's sort of 10 years later, absolutely bulletproof. So I use that for smaller shoes, but anyway, so in the bag. so I do tend to have all of my kit pretty much. when I do the, prep preparations and stuff that I'm always using, I take my 85. So I am showing this. If you've got, if you're on YouTube, you're gonna see this. And if you're just listening, if you want to see the lenses, then you can go onto YouTube. but that's the 90 mil macro.

Um, Sony, not a GM, but it's a G, a 90 mil G F 2.8. Not only is it great for, um, things like, uh, detail shots, I'll you what I do. I'll, I'll, share some, just a couple of images. I know it's not great radio.

Steve (23:13)
Just while you're

doing it then, so I'm just trying to think, Sam always does the bridal prep, unless it's to brides. I don't mean to sound patronising, but you're rocking up at a bride getting ready with this great big case coming into their room, or do you take stuff out before you go in there?

Nick Church (23:28)
I, yeah, that is a good question. I would usually get a, one of my camera bodies. So one of my eight seven fours, bring the, bring the 90 mil at a 24 and go in just like that because the 90 mil. Yeah. So the 90 mil is great for things like, ⁓ there's some product photography here as well. Cause I use it for that also. ⁓ it's really sharp. It's super sharp. So it's fantastic for portraits as well.

Steve (23:41)
Okay, so you leave the bag in the car or yeah, yeah. Okay.

Nick Church (23:56)
it's probably the sharpest lens out of this whole bunch, actually. So it's just a nice, you know, it's good 90 mil, you know, it's a good, good portrait, focal length, but, but, but with the 24 as a combination, as an alternative, it, that's nice and wide. And I find that if I take a 35 into that, which we'll come into a minute, a lot of, you know, if you're in a big state, you know, when they've got a huge, fast preparations room, great, but it's not, it's often like a Premier in or.

Steve (23:57)
Wow.

A little detail shot, yeah.

Nick Church (24:25)
somewhere that's a bit tighter, especially, and even a room that they think is quite big when they see it, when they, you know, when they're planning their wedding, once you get a photographer, videographer, makeup artist, you know, suddenly it's really tight and having something a bit wider, ⁓ is helpful. So I'll normally just go with that. And like you say, there is often a bit inconvenient to go with a massive case or bag anyway. It can be a bit tough. so yeah, so that's the, that's the, the preparation. I normally stick with just 24.

Steve (24:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Right, mates. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm. It was lovely. Yeah.

Nick Church (24:54)
a 90 is a combination for that. Then

Steve (24:58)
And

so just before we move on, they're both A7 and R4, A7 and R4, sorry, A7 and R4 cameras. Yeah.

Nick Church (25:02)
Yeah, so yeah, eight, eight, four. Um,

but so I've got two of those. can issue one cause one's on filming this and, um, they're all, all Sony lenses, um, that I use. Um, and apart from the 90 mil, that's a G lens. rest of all GM, GM lenses. Um,

Steve (25:20)
Right and how are you carrying

your cameras Nick? you a holster guy? Are you ⁓ a hold fast guy? How are you your cameras? interesting.

Nick Church (25:27)
Yeah. Hold fast strap. So apart

from the slight risk of collateral damage when going through doorways, because I'm pretty wide as it is. So having a couple of cameras hanging off isn't great, but it just, it really helps my back and it just, it just really, it just, it just works for my, my style. I swap cameras quite quickly, quite a lot. So any, any kind of system for me personally, where there's like lens holders and you want to unclip things, I'm switching between the two all the time.

between the two cameras. So yeah, I've always been a sort of hold fast, strapped guy.

Steve (25:57)
Interesting. Interesting. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Can't stand them myself, but it'll come into them. Yeah.

Nick Church (26:06)
Yeah, that's the, I guess, I I

think a lot of systems probably do have this problem that this one looks pretty good actually, but you get, you know, you, you do get where, where, the strap is rubbing, where it's hanging down. So, ⁓ yeah.

Steve (26:18)
You'll always get away on the camera bodies, battle upon something during the course

of 50 odd weddings or whatever. Yeah, completely.

Nick Church (26:24)
But, uh,

so that, that's the, I don't, I don't have the hold fast on during the preparations, but just cause it's easier to just have the, you know, just one camera body and a camera, you know, a lens bag. Once the, the typical scenario then would be to go to the wedding, um, the actual venue, the reception venue, that's when I'll either get my bag in, um, and get the whole fast strap on and then have swap the 24 for a 35.

Steve (26:34)
Hmm. Hmm.

Nick Church (26:54)
which I've again, I've got on here. So I can't show you the 35, but it's basically almost exactly the same size as this 24, 35 GM. So yeah, so it's the GM 35 1.4. So that's on one body and then the 70 to 200 on the other. yeah, fairly old fashioned.

Steve (27:00)
35gm yeah it's a built-in lens yeah

All right, okay. So let's just talk

through, just before we move on. So you've left the bridal prep. So let's assume we're in a church. This is an assumption, So you've gone inside the church, you've put your bag somewhere safe. Or have you left that in the car? Yeah.

Nick Church (27:24)
Yeah. You,

if it's a church, I'll typically leave it in the car just because it's easier because we're going to be in and going somewhere else. So if it's the, if it's the somewhere, the sort of wedding where the ceremony is at the reception venue, then yeah, bags out finding somewhere. The case is out finding somewhere I can stash it and somewhere that I can access it quite easily. Um, if it's something like a church, the last week I was in a, an Abbey in Somerset. That's an example where I would just get the cameras on and the whole, on the whole farce at the boot.

Steve (27:42)
Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah.

Nick Church (27:54)
and leave everything else in the boot and just, you know, go in with those two lenses, the 7200 and the 35.

Steve (28:01)
And are you always photographing on your own or do you ever have a second shooter?

Nick Church (28:06)
very rarely have a second shooter. do have through the Academy, all my coaching stuff and wedding workshops, one of the things I always offer is anyone that tends to that kind of can come to a wedding as an assistant and shadow. So there's sometimes that happening. The other times there are sometimes there's a filmmaker. So someone's booked a wedding film through me and if I can avoid it and it's not one of those gigs where I've got to shoot photos and film, which I...

which is not my favorite. Then I'll have somebody else, typically it's my mate Jan who would come along and do the film. I can see why you and Sam work together because it is just so much nicer having someone else there. It's balancing ideas off each other, especially when one of you is flagging a bit. I'll show you some photos in a moment on the 7200, but one of the bits of light, it was Jan that found this, so that's a great bit of light there.

Steve (28:36)
I know, man.

Nick Church (29:00)
I was just at that point where you're having a bit of a sugar rush after eating and, you know, just having somebody else there just to bounce ideas off is always great. It doesn't matter if it's someone really experienced or somebody brand new to photography, they always have a different outlook.

Steve (29:03)
no, completely.

So at the church then, let's assume it's the church, you've arrived presumably before the bride arrives or as the bride arrives? Is that right? Before, okay.

Nick Church (29:20)
Yeah, I'm I'm trying to get there before so that I can

get, get there. I want to, I want to get there, get some shots of the groom in the main. The that's the only time I'm going to have a second shoot was if they really want groom prep. But like I will say to couples while the bride takes three hours, four hours to get ready, the groom goes from boxes into full suit in about five minutes. So it's really hard to actually capture, capture that. So normally I would just say that.

Steve (29:36)
I think 20 minutes.

Nick Church (29:46)
for me, think getting some getting the mum kind of doing the buttonholes or getting that sorted a few shots with best man that sort of thing, just some really natural ones is it kind of balances all the preparation shots, you can see both both sides of the thing. And then so everyone goes in, everyone goes into the ceremony, when it's the church or whatever. So then it's a case of getting shots of people as they come in, but keep an eye out for the bride arriving outside.

Steve (29:57)
Okay.

And

do you then get to the front of the church before the bride comes in? are I assume you're not backing up as she's coming in and doing that kind of thing.

Nick Church (30:18)
No, and that's one of the

great things about having the 7200 is that versatility for exactly that sort of scenario. It can be a pain in a church that 2.8, you know, you are kind of pushing it a little bit. Well, it's more about just the light, you know, some churches are dark. Yeah, is. And 85 isn't going to do much in a big church like that Abbey. And 85 would just look like I had a wide angle on, so it wouldn't have helped at all. So it did need something with extra reach.

Steve (30:21)
3200

tight as now. ⁓

Yeah, now it's what I meant. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick Church (30:47)
But it does mean I can track them in. Yeah. So is that, is there coming in? So I'll get positioned and, you know, trying to negotiate with the vicar or priest, um, to try and let that happen. Although I do find that knowing their name, any advice to people, just finding out the Vickers name and either just calling them before, or just going to see them before and just saying, hi father, so-and-so, whatever. I'm Nick Church. Um, just that you wonder what your restrictions are. I'm going to keep out of the way, but it wasn't, if it's okay, if I could do this and.

Steve (30:49)
Yeah, interesting.

We all know about that,

great idea.

Nick Church (31:17)
You know, in almost all cases, they're absolutely fine. Even if they, even if the bride said, oh, he's a bit, a bit tough on photographers.

Steve (31:24)
I guess having a name like Church might help.

Nick Church (31:26)
I reckon I do do more my fair share of church weddings as a result. It's like a side effect of SEO.

Steve (31:27)
Yeah, yeah,

I can change my name to Steve registry office. Yeah. Okay, so you're in situ at the front. And we're all familiar with the negotiate with the presiding minister, whatever the phrase is. Yeah.

Nick Church (31:36)
Yeah.

Yeah. So as they come in and

what I've, what I've learned as much as you have as well, that you want to try and extricate yourself as quickly as possible once the bride's there. Cause you don't want to get trapped at the back there. Cause you be in some churches, you're stuck there for the next 45 minutes and you can't move. So getting at getting to the side as quickly as possible. Um, so I

Steve (31:58)
That's a worry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want you in position.

Do you move at all? Are you there for the duration of the ceremony?

Nick Church (32:06)
Yeah, I probably move, um, a bit more than I tell Vickers. will. Um, I suspect, that's my character, isn't it? It's very much as I'm apologize afterwards rather than seek permission. Yeah, totally. But I do like getting a side shot. know, I, if anyone's looks at my portfolio, they'll see quite a lot of a bride just looking over the shoulder of a group. You know, that, that kind of, it's quite, an intimate shot, you know, especially with the longer angle lens where I can get quite out of the way and go to the back and.

Steve (32:11)
Yeah, better to forgiveness than seek permission.

Yeah, I have, yeah.

It's a lovely photo.

Nick Church (32:36)
hunt down some people if there's often lovely light coming into the church, um, through windows. And it's this classic thing of rather than taking shots of the right people in crap light, find anyone where there's a beautiful shaft of light and it's going to be an absolute banger. You know, it's going to be a really beautiful shot. So I'm sort of doing that because 45 minutes, especially for photos rather than film.

Steve (32:51)
Completely.

Nick Church (32:58)
It all looks the same through a wedding ceremony, you know, all right, the rings come out at one point. So you've to be there for that bit to make sure you've told that bit of story, any readings and things like that. But the rest of the time, I'm going to be getting a bit of variety if I can.

Steve (33:09)
interesting because it's very different to what we do but again because there's two of us it gives us a bit more flexibility but yeah fascinating so okay so a couple have got married they're about to do the recession or are you then getting to the other side of the church ready for them coming down the aisle as a couple

Nick Church (33:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. That's when I'll, get in front of them. So I'll, I'll be in the aisle at that point and then track them out and trying to tell them to slow down because it always seems like it's going to be a race to get outside. And it's like, can't walk backwards faster. can't run backwards faster than you can run forward. So just slow down. And then what I always like to do, for, cause typically it's confetti at that point. If there's a way to get them out of the way around the corner or in a separate little bit of the church.

Steve (33:28)
Yeah.

What's the rush?

Nick Church (33:51)
because moving a hundred people, otherwise they'll come out and I always get them to come out anyway. And we'll get a shot in front of the church doors where people come out just because I love, we love that sort of that type of style of very dark background. can see all my shots are the same, very dark background with, with some really nice bits of light in. Um, but if they stay there, you've got a hundred people that all want their 15 seconds of congratulations. And that's a nightmare, you know, get them out of the way and you can get people out much more quickly. So yeah, that's where the.

Steve (34:13)
That's right. That's right.

And you would then set up a confetti

line? Would you do that? Yeah, me too, yeah.

Nick Church (34:21)
Yeah. Yeah. So that's when the, that's

when the crowd management part starts. the only real, challenge I find with that is what I would, what I always want to achieve is an exit with everybody, like four people deep and get a big ball of people because with tons of confetti, but everyone wants to, everyone wants to go into a line and everyone wants to not get in front of other people. Cause we're all very British normally and we find it be rude.

Steve (34:25)
Yeah. ⁓

Nick Church (34:48)
I'm kind of, what I end up with is, somewhere between the two of, two, an aisle, but maybe I I might be lucky to get sort of two people deep, sometimes three. Then you get a nice lot of confetti. Cause there's no point having 400 shots of just a little bit of confetti. You want to get a hundred of tons, don't you? Yeah.

Steve (34:56)
Yeah, it sounds like us.

random bits of confetti it's useless yeah yeah

yeah yeah no been there yeah what about when they want any group photos at the church is that something you would you would do or would you try and dissuade them from that

Nick Church (35:12)
Yeah, I just leave it up to them. I'm very much a better boss. I'm providing a service, whatever they want. I'm going to do if they want shots in the church, then we'll manage it. Often people will, I think if there's a family where there is some significance of the church, they sometimes want some, but that's probably quite rare. More common is they want to get back to the wedding, the reception venue so that people can have a drink, something to eat. So at least they're occupied while these photos are happening.

Steve (35:16)
Mm.

Yeah, agreed, agreed. Yes, occasionally you might have a grandparent who isn't coming to the reception, they're only coming to the church, so they make one some groups. And usually in my experience, they're not the best places to do group pictures, because you're struggling to find anywhere where there's not weeds or there's not gravestones or, you know, yeah, but it is all decent light. Yeah. Or people, of course. Yeah. Yeah.

Nick Church (35:41)
Exactly, yeah.

I know. Yeah. It's actually quite difficult or people, people, people behind yet. You're really struggling sometimes.

And yeah, so I prefer not to, but if they, you know, I say to all my couples happy to do whatever, know, although I do always make the point of the more group shots you choose, the fewer documentary that shots LB because I don't tend to have a second shooter. So I'm not going to be doing that while I'm taking group shots. And that that's not be quite a good way to throw back a little bit. Did the number that they're asking for.

Steve (36:02)
Yeah, exactly.

Yep. Yep.

Okay so ceremony's over we're on the way to the venue, couple arrive, drinks and nibbles, what are you doing then and how are you approaching it?

Nick Church (36:28)
First job normally is to take some really close up shots of some nice canapes and then quickly snaffle one before anyone notices. Yeah. Because I'm not very morning. I'm not really a morning person. So I'm normally not eaten by this point. So they never go down very nicely. I like to leave a good chunk of time, not that long, but like 20 minutes of just people celebrating and, you know, catching up and getting, you know, let them set into it. But then I really want to get those group shots done and out of the way as quickly as possible. So that's when.

Steve (36:33)
And they nicked a few. You read my mind.

You

same here.

And gear wise,

he's still on the 35 and the 7200.

Nick Church (36:56)
Yeah. So

35 and 70, 200, and that will remain the case until later on, until it gets darker. You know, not, even not past gold now, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll stay, I'll stay with it as long as possible in the church. It is frustrating having a 2.8, but I thought what weighs round at the 85 isn't going to get far enough. A 135 will be kind of, you know, that will be a nice thing to have a 135 F what was it? 1.8. That's only that. Yeah.

Steve (37:03)
interesting.

at 1.8 and we've got one here

with a scratch across the front element but still yeah it's no it's fine it's fine yeah it's fine yeah

Nick Church (37:25)
That'd be lovely. I I probably can't tell. Can you, you can't see it on the images? No. Yeah,

that, that would be nice, but it, you know, that question about gear, about, you know, asking yourself, does this new thing solve a problem that I can articulate? So yes, it does that the next thing is, is it going to earn me more money? And it probably won't, but it, you know, it would be like, you no one cares about image noise. We've talked about it before.

Steve (37:48)
Yeah, that's a think.

Nick Church (37:53)
But it would be, you know, it would be nice. think if I did more family shoots where you get that lovely rendered background, I think I would definitely be thinking about getting 135. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's too restrictive. Once it's on there, one of my cameras is stuck at 135. I've got not, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a bit limited. I've got nothing else, nothing else to do. but the 70, this 7200 is like almost like a

Steve (38:02)
It's a serious bit of class though, a serious weight. Okay, interesting.

That's right.

Nick Church (38:19)
box of primes at every length. It's incredibly sharp and it focuses silently quickly. And this version two is about 40 % lighter than the V1. The only thing I preferred on the V1 was the, it was not technically as good. it flared more easily. And I used to love that. I really love that look. It's quite hard to get this to do that. You get those kind of, I don't know what you call it, where it kind of just, you get like an orangey kind of...

Steve (38:23)
it is. Yeah, it is.

Nick Church (38:44)
glow from one corner, but you don't get those sort of green purple spots that go through it that I just think are lovely. But I guess I could get a filter if I was that bothered about it.

Steve (38:52)
Talking of orangey

things, with this cheap webcam I'm using today I keep going from pink to orange so apologies for that on YouTube I don't know why that is but still I couldn't carry my camera today to Birmingham so apologies for looking a little bit like a certain United States President yeah okay, probably just my view then. ⁓

Nick Church (38:56)
Yeah.

You look all right to me. So yeah, 35

to 35 to, um, on one, on one camera, 70, 200 on the other. And that stays with me all the way through until only until the evening. So let me, let me, I'll just show me people.

Yeah.

No, sorry, the groups I do on...

That's an interesting point. Actually, I did do more. I used to do 35 for groups. I'm finding myself if I've got the space behind me, I do much further shots on 70 to 100. So I'm going to get I'm getting back as far as possible, even if you know, you can get back far enough and get people in full length, it doesn't really nice. So I do find myself using that if it if there's more people, like I'm trying to do an everybody shot, then I'll I'll definitely go through. But the 70 to 100 is just it's just such a versatile lens with this.

Steve (39:39)
they do great with the longer lens, yeah.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Nick Church (39:57)
Newer one, the version two as well focuses so closely as well. You definitely wouldn't need a macro lens during the day. The rest of the day, you you can be really focused nice and closely. ⁓ and that's the shot that, ⁓ my mate Jan picked up. They were, they were stood, they're facing the other way. So I got them to, you know, I was pleased about that. So it works really well right up until, you know, almost sunset. And it's only when you get like no light at all and you're just dealing with inside. That's when I swap.

Steve (40:07)
lovely.

beautiful.

Nick Church (40:26)
to the 85 generally. So I'm going to get the 85 1.4 GM instead. Yep. And that's another one that I would really like the version two, because this is a, if you've got one of these, the 1.4, right? Okay. This is an absolute beast. really, it's, can't be much different from that weight. In fact, it might even be heavier than the 70 to 200. It's really heavy and it's really slow. So I, I use it for studio shots all the time.

Steve (40:31)
specific, yeah.

No, we're on a Sigma. Sigma's 85, 1 up, cool.

Wow.

Nick Church (40:56)
that 85. The version two, I'm sure is much lighter. I'm sure it's much faster, but it's going to take the same photo pretty much. And I just can't justify, just can't justify the cost of it. So

Steve (41:04)
Yeah.

To go back to

the sort of the speeches then, so obviously they have did and they'll do speeches like before or afterwards depending on what they want to do. Do you ever light those or are you only ever using ambient light?

Nick Church (41:20)
Yeah, usually, even if the last last weekend, I didn't, because it's just it's just getting too light. But that was if I wasn't shooting a film as well, if I wasn't shooting a film, probably would have done anyway. But if I can avoid having flashes in the film, I will do. But I just really do like the extra contrast you get from having some flash. I just because even if it's even if it's a good amount of light.

Unless they're indirect sunlight, they've often got a white wall behind them. So it's still really washed out and it's hard to pick anyone out. It's hard to get any kind of outline or contrast there. So I do want to try and use light if possible. This venue was, I think this was shot at, yeah, it was in November anyway, but it's very, it's very dark in this and it's very rich kind of background. So it just works beautifully for flash. They all look like oil paintings. It looks, you know, it's great.

Steve (41:50)
Completely, yeah.

Yeah.

So Neil Redfern and Helen Williams that were on the show a few weeks ago and obviously run Flashmasters, they do quite a bit of stuff about this, but they're using three off-camera lights ⁓ and one either side and one facing the table and with the Godox triggers, they're effectively switching one off or on depending on what they're doing. Are you as sophisticated as that?

Nick Church (42:31)
Yeah. Yeah.

I know. So I normally have, um, I've got at that point, I've got one of these on each camera. So that's a, um, the V8 63 go docs. Um, that's just the mag mod thing, which incidentally, um, this is a mag mod thing, but I now just use Salons off of eBay. It's about a third. The price is actually the same. So, um, so.

Steve (42:52)
I know, yeah. That's probably killed our mother-in-law sponsorship,

but yes, you're right.

Nick Church (42:58)
The MagMod thing is much stronger. This bit is much stronger,

this is my top thing that I lose at weddings. I can't afford 70 quid each time. I lose one these, which is about four or five a year. Having one of these on both, then have, because what I love about the Godox system is they all talk to each other. So when I had Nikon, I had three of these as well when I had Nikon. So I just use those now off camera.

Steve (43:19)
Yeah, completely.

Yeah, absolutely.

Nick Church (43:26)
and trigger them. So, two,

so I have one on each camera, ⁓ two off camera and three would be nice to have off camera, but it's just because I'm normally on my own. It's just too impractical to set everything up. And yeah. So I've, I find if I've got two off camera, this off on camera, and I can still bounce a bit with this to just give credit a bit of fill and use those other ones in a variety of different ways, depending where I'm moving. That's what I love about off camera flash is

Steve (43:38)
That's a lot of work, isn't it?

Nick Church (43:53)
You don't have to change anything. just move your position. You get a completely different look. You know, if it's, you get night's degree, you get a very dramatic kind of outline and you can then fill it with a bit of fill flash. And yeah, that's so that's my, that's my setup and it just works really well. Yeah.

Steve (43:57)
Absolutely.

Interesting. So

if you've got the videographer, would you ever go to LED lights instead?

Nick Church (44:11)
I've never, I have done in the past, it is just, it doesn't create that separation from the background for me. And it just, yeah, I'm always a little bit disappointed. And, ⁓ so I'll typically, even if, even if the videographer has got continuous lights, like I've got here, which are the Godox, ML 60 lights, which are blooming brilliant. I'll still have a flash next to it and

Steve (44:20)
no, no for sure, yeah.

Nick Church (44:37)
If it's something that I know I want to capture a really nice shot of, I'll just have to accept that there's going to be some flashes in the film. I could always take out the frame here and there if it's intrusive in the film.

Steve (44:45)
Hmm,

interesting. Okay. Alright, speeches are over. Bit of golden eye photos and what you've shown as well, which look gorgeous. What about when it gets down to party time? What are you doing then?

Nick Church (44:58)
Then I change up a little bit. sometimes still have two cameras, but I might sometimes go to one, but I, because of the F 2.8 on the 7200, I swapped to the 85 1.4 because normally you're inside by that anyway, you don't need that super long kind of reach anyway. But, purely because that is too similar to 35, I then, I then just go to 28, sorry, 24. So I've got the 24 GM. So I've got 24 and the 85.

Steve (45:10)
Okay.

Nick Church (45:28)
And that's pretty much what I go with the 85 is good for any kind of shots where I want to get some nice portrait type shots in lower light. The 24 is a really good balance of being able to get still documentary type photos, but be able to get right into the dance floor and still getting those immersive wide angle shots. So it's wide enough for that. And that's, that's pretty much what I use for the rest of the day. Then I would really love. Yeah. So on the dance floor, use.

Steve (45:44)
Absolutely.

What about lighting the dance floor? What are you doing then?

Nick Church (45:57)
to those same two flashes at the front and normally by the DJ speakers. Normally seems to be a pretty good place to do it. And I really liked the look actually of then, let me see if I've got one of going to, let me share this next slot. This is the, oh, this is with an 18 mil actually. So I do occasionally go, no, sorry, 14. So 14 mil.

Steve (46:18)
Huh.

wow,

yeah, very wide, yeah.

Nick Church (46:22)
which I normally

use. So my bag for doing commercial interiors is quite different, obviously, to a wedding. So I'll sometimes use that and just get really close and you just get such energetic images. I I'm within touching distance of his shot. I put my hand on his shoulders, you know, so you get some, these are the commercial stuff. I do use it through the wedding day as well sometimes.

Steve (46:39)
Brilliant.

Nick Church (46:44)
So that's the, that's the 14, ⁓ which is a 14, 1.8 GM, which I, which I love it. And in terms of, you know, we talked about is the lens going to make you money. This is paid for itself, probably 40 times over for the commercial, ⁓ interiors that I do. The only really I used to have before this, I had the Baptist lenses. ⁓ so I had that range of lenses and they had a, ⁓ normal filter ring.

Steve (46:53)
Wow.

Nick Church (47:13)
You know, filter thread on the front. So I could use it for doing landscape photography. This hasn't, you see, it's got the, ⁓ I can't see it because there's not much light. It's got like a bulbous sort of front bit. there's, there's no filter thread. Yeah. So there are, there's a filter system I can use for the back. ⁓ but I can't be bothered to use that. So I did buy it, but then I haven't ever used it. So that it's, which consequently probably is why I don't do as much landscape stuff these days, just because it's.

Steve (47:24)
Yeah, so they're dropping at the back are they?

Interesting.

Nick Church (47:42)
It's not easy to use filters with, the, with the, yeah, yeah, as well. So yeah, 20, 24 and 85. This is the time where I would love to have a 50, 1.2 because 85 is if I'm trying to get a couple dancing, it's quite tight. It's quite, especially when you've got quite a slow lens, like the 85, 1.4, you almost find people are flashing past your field of view and you, you know, it's really hard to, to, grab them. I think 50 mil would just be a much better.

Steve (47:43)
And time of course, yeah.

Yeah.

Nick Church (48:12)
option for me. But I think I would want to get the 51.2. And it's really expensive. And again, it's not gonna I think I would it would solve some problems and it would make my life easier and better. But it's not gonna get me more bookings I don't think or anything like that. So it's firmly on my wishlist, but not something that I can really justify right now.

Steve (48:12)
Hmm.

It's a gorgeous lens. ⁓

Probably not, no.

Nick, it's fascinating that you've got so much of the same gear that we have, but lot of the way you do things is very, very different. And then of course that's why we're doing this particular exercise. about before you finally say goodbye to the couple? So first of all, how long are you hanging around after the first dance?

Nick Church (48:52)
Well, yeah, good point. I, I, I've never been one of these last man standing type photographers. I think whether it's just my couples, but when we talk through the wedding day and I say to them, what's going to happen is we're to do your first dance. I'm to get loads of shots of people dancing, joining you on the dance floor. I'm going to get shots of people at the bar, bar, if Auntie's doing shots at the bar, whatever, we're going to get all of that. Then if it's in the summer, we might, we'll pop out again and get some golden hour E-type.

shots as well. So I'll come and grab you for that. But I always say to them after that, that the same stuff's going to keep happening for the rest of the evening. So there's no point in me just taking the same pictures. And in almost all cases, you can really see a quite sense of relief that they think, Oh, you know, that'd be quite nice actually, that they can drop their guard a little bit. They know they're going to have the rest of evening without photos. So my couple seemed to be absolutely well up for that. And so it gets to about nine o'clock and I'm pretty sure I've got everything. If I, if there's fireworks or they're doing sparklers or whatever.

there's a bit later than I will say later, but that's the point where I think I'm increasingly just getting the same photos again and again, you know,

Steve (49:55)
Yeah, you are right. And typically

what happens, they all go on the dance floor for first dance, couple of dances and the dance floor clears for an hour, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we like to hang around normally for about an hour up to the first dance. Cause I do like the party stuff. I like playing around with drag show too and all that kind of stuff. And sometimes we might do a bit of creative flash work as like our final picture before we go for the couple. We might just go out and pounce around with some Godox lights and gels and things. then...

Nick Church (50:01)
Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Steve (50:23)
We do like one final picture stand there, right, we're off now then. OK. But that depends on the couple and also the venue and also the time of year as well, really. So, yeah, fascinating. Yeah.

Nick Church (50:33)
I have found

that that evening, what can be quite good for me is if I've got like say first answer say eight o'clock, like you say by quarter past eight, that everyone's left the dance for people have danced for me and they've left. I found that what can work quite well is for me to go and just have a break, whether it's sitting in the car just to recharge the old social batteries or just go and grab a coffee and sit somewhere.

And just sit down for half an hour and just chill out. And then for that 20 minutes, suddenly I think, I've actually got a bit of pepper back me now. I can be a bit more creative before I go. ⁓ because I do find that that's at the point where I'm at my most tired and the, can feel the, the car beckoning me with a glass of wine. I'm back to me to go. ⁓ but I, but I also think that I really want to be, especially if it's something creative like flash and you think that'd be really nice to do that. I think, right. We just get a bit of energy back and just have one last.

Steve (51:04)
That's interesting.

Yeah.

Nick Church (51:26)
push, you know, and just get some really nice shots for a go. And it's quite a nice way to end it when you do something really creative with the couple, you can give them a hug and then you're off, you know, and it's, just a, you feel like you've, and you present like you've worked your ass off to the end of the day till you've left. And I think that's important.

Steve (51:31)
Yeah, it is. Yeah.

Yeah

and you wouldn't ever just go you always go and say goodbye to the couple and yeah same here yeah

Nick Church (51:45)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Totally. And, ⁓ even to the point if it's the time where the brides disappear to change dress or whatever, then I'll just wait. I'd never want to leave. Yeah. I wouldn't want to leave without. And if you wait long enough, you might get a bit of pizza or whatever the evening food is. So that's the other, that's the other benefit. It's always hard to get. It's always hard because the food, the food tends to come out about the time that I leave. And I think, I really want a bit of pizza or some bacon sandwiches, but I don't want to be first in the queue because that looks bad.

Steve (51:55)
Hmm. Hmm. No, it's really frankly. Yeah. Yeah.

You're so like me.

Yeah,

Nick Church (52:15)
But if I wait to the end of the queue, I think if I wait for the end of the queue, it's another 20 minutes. But I'm just stood in a queue.

Steve (52:16)
I tend to hang around which is why I'm getting fat. The couple on Saturday I it was a two groom wedding. We would have gone a bit earlier because they did the first dance quite early but they had a drag act and he and were absolutely brilliant so it was worth hanging around from a photography point of view. I wish I was videoing. It was so good actually so we did hang around for that before we...

Nick Church (52:36)
⁓ absolutely.

Steve (52:42)
before we went so that was a lot of fun. But like you say, there's no point hanging around if you're just duplicating what you're doing or there's nothing to photograph really, you're just taking photos for the sake of it aren't you?

Nick Church (52:47)
Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. If I know I've got

enough of the couple and enough of people dancing, ⁓ and I've got some more creative ones. it's, if it is that, cause I always find like that May, like April, May time, it's great because you get a golden hour. Then it gets dark Friday. The problem with June and July is it's still broad daylight before the time I'm leaving and people dancing and what it like the office, because it's just broad daylight streaming. And so, ⁓ it does mean you, you, get more of the atmosphere of the day in those months.

Steve (53:05)
That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, completely.

What we haven't talked about is if you're doing hybrid shooting, I think we'll leave that for another day because that's a whole discussion in its own right because we're doing a fair bit of that as well. But as you've said already, it's a traditional challenge. It's almost like splitting your brain in half when you're doing photo and video as well. But is there anything that we have missed that you want to highlight that you do in the day or any other equipment that you use?

Nick Church (53:36)
Um, well

for my commercial stuff, um, which, which we have gotten here. So this, this sort of stuff, my, my kit's very different there. I hardly ever use anything wider than, uh, you know, type than 35. So most, most of my interiors is all 35. Sorry, 14, that 14 mil lens. So almost all of them is that, and then if there's any tighter.

like sort of bits of detail might be a bit of design elements or something aesthetic inside. Then I'll use a 35 as well to capture that. think 35 works well because it's not close enough. If I use the macro lens or something, it would just look like I'm doing product photography for a cushion or something. So it's enough to capture tones and things. And so you could take a wide shot like this and then go into some sort of side tighter shots on 35 of those chairs with different colors, looking back in the other direction. And that works really well.

Steve (54:22)
Yeah.

Nick Church (54:35)
So for most interiors, never like, I never use flash my interiors. think I'm quite unusual. Um, in that I just don't like the look of it. I'd much rather do it. So I'm, I'm always stacking every shot I do is three or five exposures, um, for an interior and just let light room rip through them all. that's another set it off and go to bed. Cause it takes ages to go through and do all of the HDR, um, composites. Um, and actually one, one tip is the.

Steve (54:40)
Yes you are.

Nick Church (55:04)
A couple of things I found out really late in my career as an interior photographer with Lightroom. One is that just always, well, yeah, there's two things. One is I didn't realize you could stack the images based on capture time. So if you're taking bracketed shots, so you're going around in a call of a room, you take your five shots, three shots, then you change position and take another five shots or whatever. You can select all the images once they're back in Lightroom.

Steve (55:21)
no, mate. No.

Nick Church (55:34)
and automatically stack them based on capture time. you set capture time way down to one second. And that will pretty much create stacks of all three, like three shots, each all of your bracketed exposures. Occasionally if you, if you're, and what that means is when you're shooting, you just tend to slow down a bit. Cause what you don't want to do is take and then do some more. Cause if you, then you end up with stacks for six and you have to separate them out again. So you work in a way that's a little bit slower.

Steve (55:46)
gosh.

Nick Church (56:02)
The other major thing we'll be doing that is you can then select all of your stacked exposures and just do shift control H and that will just set off Lightroom for the next four hours, combining all of those into individual HDRs. I was doing it manually one by one, it to take me ages.

Steve (56:16)
one.

It's something I've never

done, but you're looking at that image, the dynamic range and the sheer breadth of tones you've got, and it's fantastic really.

Nick Church (56:27)
Yeah, you have

to, mean, it's, it's, mean, partly because what happens is owners have typically hired me because they've used their iPhones and ended up not getting the shots they want. The problem with the problem with that is that iPhones are really good at doing HDR without them even knowing. So they're, they're seeing the sunlight come, you know, they're seeing the blue sky through the windows and be able to see the inside as well. So yeah, you have to do it. ⁓ so yeah, that, that's been a real game changer finding out how to do that. That was in the, ⁓

Steve (56:45)
Yeah.

amazing.

Yeah, must have learnt something today, Yeah, gosh.

Nick Church (56:56)
In one of my Facebook groups, actually several mentioned that. the other one is when I'm

doing the 35, because of that process, that post process, I always take three shots, even if it's at the same thing. And I'm not even bracketing them. I'll take three shots of them because otherwise it just means I have to deselect some of them when I'm doing that automatic stacking. So I just stack everything even if it's a cushion, you know, whatever. ⁓ yeah, that's, that saves a lot of time.

Steve (57:24)
Nick, it's been great finding out more about your approach and what you carry around with you on the wedding day and also for your homes and your property photography. If there was one bit of kit that you could have, I'm not saying when you know object, I think it needs to be realistic, but one bit of kit that you have that you haven't got right now that you think that will make a difference to your work, what would it be?

Nick Church (57:47)
I think it would definitely be that 50, that 51.2 I think would make the evening part of a wedding, it make my focal lengths much more balanced. And I think I would get better shots for it. I don't think the couple's going to notice particularly. So that's, that's firm on my list. That 135 f 1.8, I could definitely make use of that. And I think I would ⁓ love the results of it. Especially as those sorts of shots of families walking along a woodland path, you know, with the

Steve (57:56)
Hmm.

Nick Church (58:14)
just pastel, the background rendered back to complete mush, you know, really, you know, so I would love to have that. I might rent one. I might borrow one for yours next. see you'll to see if I can have it.

Steve (58:24)
Just

don't scratch it even more, there's already scratched, yeah.

Nick Church (58:26)
Yeah. Well, it's like a, it's like

a car or watch, isn't it? The first scratch is the worst. You're after that. doesn't matter. ⁓ I really didn't talk about drone, but that's, that's on my list as well. So I've got, I've got the Mavic three pro, ⁓ which used to be a Mavic three, but there's some, some idiot flew into a tree. ⁓ was still thinking about that, but one thing I, why I used to have a mini three pro.

Steve (58:31)
What's another song? Is that the first cut of the deepest? Yeah, I'm gonna mix it up.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we did have a conversation last time.

Nick Church (58:56)
as well, which are just so versatile to be able to just take it off in your hand. Really great little things. But I had to sell that to, you know, to fund the Mavic 3 that I bought. I would really like the, a small one again, because I've got an inquiry at the moment of a warehouse that they want. It's a bed warehouse near me. They want some drone sequences of the warehouse, but also internal of this warehouse, all these beds. And I'm just not sure if I'm confident getting the Mavic 3 up in there. It's fairly big and...

Whereas the three just feels just so easy to sort of do to fly around inside. Um, right. So that, that is something that if, my, if money was not an issue, I would definitely pick up a, a mini four pro as well as the Mavic three. think the combination of those two. Yeah. Cool. Yeah.

Steve (59:37)
Well we can borrow our mini 3 if you want, If that would help.

If you get a query you just use it. It's not a problem. So I've never had anything bigger than a mini drone but what about the implications of flying a bigger than 250 grand drone at a wedding if you ever had any issues there or concerns?

Nick Church (59:43)
Yeah, awesome. All right, thanks, Steve.

No, I mean, the, do your usual, you just have to go through more hoops beforehand, but really it's stuff. If you do the A2C of C, so certificate of competency, it's all pretty stuff. know, some of this, the stuff you do, think, this is a bit of a pain to do this big thing. Actually these are quite good ideas to do a risk assessment and look at if there's airports nearby and things like that. it's all, it's standard stuff. And the main difference with the.

Steve (1:00:18)
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Nick Church (1:00:27)
larger, the ones over 250 is the distance to people that are not in your control. And weddings are a particularly gray corner case because it's arguable whether every wedding kind of is under your control. can, you can talk to them, they're not general publics. If you've got permission of the land, the land owner, venue then, and you're being sensible. And I always think if you have an accident, like I did the other day, um, not, not, not into somebody, but into a tree.

Steve (1:00:41)
Pretty much,

Nick Church (1:00:56)
I think if you could show that you'd taken reasonable steps to avoid it, then I think you're good. You know, I think, I think as long as you think, right, if I do crash this doing this, is it going to look bad if I have to explain to somebody what I've done? And, and that pretty much like is all you need to do because people are inside your control. Then, it's a wedding. Certainly it's easier. This thing like this warehouse, that mini fourth pro or mini three pro.

Steve (1:01:03)
Yeah, I think you're right.

Yeah.

Nick Church (1:01:24)
would make that a lot easier because I wouldn't have that restriction because that's less, that's less clear people outside on the street, you know, that they are my control. If I'm on my own, it's not easy for me to actually stop people walking past. And the, the mini four would certainly get around that nicely.

Steve (1:01:25)
Hmm. Now I see that,

Hmm.

I guess at the wedding everybody's pretty much within the confines of the ⁓ perimeter of the grounds unless a bride's made and a groom's been fucked up somewhere and disappeared off behind a tree somewhere. But we won't go into that, that's another story for another day.

Nick Church (1:01:44)
Yeah.

I suppose hotel, hotel,

I think this is why hotels, hotel venues like Devere type venues where they have a wedding section, but they've also always open. I think that's why they're tighter on, you know, drones things. And they always want to see your qualifications and things like that to make sure, because they do have members of the public going around.

Steve (1:02:04)
Yeah, I think that's right.

Rightly so.

Great stuff, Nick. Nick, I've really enjoyed that. As I say, I've learned a lot about the way you do things. I've learned some new ideas of things I want to try out as well. But I think, as I said earlier, you've got pretty much the same kid as we have, some variations, but pretty much. But you do things in very different way. So really looking forward to sharing with you in a couple of weeks what we do really now.

Nick Church (1:02:22)
Yeah.

I can't wait, but that's why it's so fascinating, isn't it? Because we all,

mean, even if we were using different brands, you would say if you're on Canon or Nikon, they're all pretty much the same, aren't they? And, but everyone's got such a different, different way. Just chatting to Jan, I always use spot focus, always have done spot focus and with IAW to focus on one thing. chatting to somebody else at the weekend, they always have it on track where you spot focus, but if you hold it, it will track the person as well. I I never thought about that, you know, use it for a bit. Pretty good.

Steve (1:02:38)
Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, I do.

Nick Church (1:02:58)
You know, and everyone has, and he couldn't imagine doing it just with the spot and I couldn't imagine doing it tracking, but actually there's benefits of doing both ways.

Steve (1:02:58)
Yeah.

fascinating. If you've got any questions dear listener about the way that Nick photographs his weddings or even for that matter how me and Sam or any ideas or any questions should I say about our approach generally then we'd love to hear from you. You can of course contact us through our Facebook group which is just the photography pod surprisingly and we also have an email address as well now for the show and Nick you're going to have to remind me what the email address is. I know terrible.

Nick Church (1:03:26)
you haven't memorized it. It's studio

studio at the photography pod dot code at UK.

YouTube on that after report as well. Yeah.

Steve (1:03:35)
⁓ Don't forget the YouTube. We really

want you to check us out on YouTube because all these lovely pictures that Nick's been showing, of course you won't get to see them unless you actually come and look to us on YouTube. So make sure you come and visit the podcast on YouTube as well.

Nick Church (1:03:46)
And talking about

the, ⁓ the pod, the, the episodes are also, there's a pod page for each episode, which does point you to the YouTube channel, a bit more background, see the photos that we're showing from our guests, or there's our own. That will all be moving to the Nick Church creative Academy platform once I have a running, because that has got a launch date now, 31st of May. So one of the things I'll be doing early doors is to get all of our podcast content onto there. And it's just a bet. It's a better platform for.

Steve (1:03:55)
Mm.

great.

Nick Church (1:04:16)
loads of things, including the bit, the limits on video and audio and all those sorts of things. This can be a much better place to host that, that stuff.

Steve (1:04:23)
And if there is anybody

out there that doesn't know what the Nick Church Creative Academy is, just say a few words.

Nick Church (1:04:28)
Yeah. So it's a, ⁓ I created it for two purposes. It's at the moment or up till now, all of my education has been done through my main photography website. There's a separate section, all of that. So, it's a bit kind of clunky. It's sort of mashed together with my photography. So that's going to be moving to the Nick Cheshire Creative Academy new platform. So it, on the first instance is a way to book the, all the one-to-one stuff and group workshops people have always done.

But this platform is one that means I can add things I've always wanted to do, like online courses, a community subscriptions, all these other things. And so there'd be a free tier of, ⁓ free subscription tier where people can get a stream of content without they sign up no payment and they'll, they'll get that. But to be able to deliver online courses, something I'm really passionate about. And that's something that will be available at launch.

Steve (1:05:18)
looking forward to finding out more.

Nick Church (1:05:20)
Yeah. So on Nick,

WWW Nick church, creative academy.com. So if you had there, there's a landing page at the moment, which, which gives a summary of the stuff I've just said. ⁓ but at the end of May, that website, that, that web link will also, that, will just direct you to the right place. God, I've really messed up how to describe that. wouldn't, you wouldn't believe I had a technical background. Okay. Go to WWW Nick church, creative academy.com. And that's where you'll find all the information. And that's where the platform will live when it's launched.

Steve (1:05:24)
Thank you.

Fantastic Nick Thank

you. Fantastic. So don't forget dear listener if you have enjoyed today's episode make sure you subscribe particularly on YouTube but also to your audio podcast favorite app as well and don't forget to give us a review on whichever audio podcast app you use and of course comments as much as you would like on the on the YouTube channel nice things of course if that's possible we'll be back again in a couple of weeks time with another episode and I'll tell you bit more about what's in mine and Samantha's bag and that's a very scary place to go

Nick Church (1:06:16)
Yeah, looking forward to that.

Steve (1:06:18)
Yeah, me too. But in the meantime, have a great time out there. Happy shooting. I will talk to you soon.

Nick Church (1:06:22)
Goodbye.